Difference between revisions of "Talk:Portal:Genealogy"

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m (Comparison of potential websites: wiki.familysearch.org allows no commercial use)
(Proposal to move genealogy advice outside this wiki: expanded the license section, added a wikibook)
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= Proposal to move genealogy advice outside this wiki =
 
= Proposal to move genealogy advice outside this wiki =
I suggest that we begin (carefully) moving articles which are not specific to GRAMPS out of the GRAMPS wiki. --[[User:Duncan|DuncanNZ]] 09:33, 16 October 2008 (EDT)
+
I think we should do this, but I don't think we have found the right solution yet. Damn, I thought I had... --[[User:Duncan|DuncanNZ]] 09:33, 16 October 2008 (EDT)
  
== Reasons for moving genealogy advice outside this wiki ==
+
== Reasons for the move ==
 
* Credibility is improved by keeping advice seperate from a specific software solution
 
* Credibility is improved by keeping advice seperate from a specific software solution
 
* The GRAMPS wiki is relatively small and presumably gets few non-GRAMPS users visiting
 
* The GRAMPS wiki is relatively small and presumably gets few non-GRAMPS users visiting
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* Involvement in more active (and diverse) websites increases the potential for collaboration and original solutions and thoughts
 
* Involvement in more active (and diverse) websites increases the potential for collaboration and original solutions and thoughts
  
== Current problems with moving genealogy advice outside this wiki ==
+
== Current problems with moving ==
 
* There are no good multilingual sites
 
* There are no good multilingual sites
 
* Internal inks in this site need to be preserved (so don't actually delete a page, leave a link to the new location)
 
* Internal inks in this site need to be preserved (so don't actually delete a page, leave a link to the new location)
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(Please sign you wishes so we can discuss them on the email lists)
 
(Please sign you wishes so we can discuss them on the email lists)
 
* Fully multi-lingual (Jerome), --[[User:Duncan|DuncanNZ]] 09:33, 16 October 2008 (EDT)
 
* Fully multi-lingual (Jerome), --[[User:Duncan|DuncanNZ]] 09:33, 16 October 2008 (EDT)
* Using a license which allows content to be included in GRAMPS documentation for Debian and gNewSense (we need a link to their criteria) --[[User:Duncan|DuncanNZ]] 09:33, 16 October 2008 (EDT)
+
* The site must use a free license (free to use, modify and distribute) --[[User:Duncan|DuncanNZ]] 09:33, 16 October 2008 (EDT) ([http://help.ubuntu.com/community help.ubuntu.com/community] uses [http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/ BY-SA] )
 
* Consensus among wiki editors on which site to use, so we can endorse it for readers as our preferred choice. --[[User:Duncan|DuncanNZ]] 09:33, 16 October 2008 (EDT)
 
* Consensus among wiki editors on which site to use, so we can endorse it for readers as our preferred choice. --[[User:Duncan|DuncanNZ]] 09:33, 16 October 2008 (EDT)
 
* Site should aggregate from other sites' content, to avoid duplication (what's this called?) --[[User:Duncan|DuncanNZ]] 09:33, 16 October 2008 (EDT)
 
* Site should aggregate from other sites' content, to avoid duplication (what's this called?) --[[User:Duncan|DuncanNZ]] 09:33, 16 October 2008 (EDT)
 +
 +
=== Suitable licenses ===
 +
* [http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/gpl.html GPL] is OK for [http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/ddp-policy/ch-common.en.html Debian]
 +
* [http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/ BY-SA v3.0] is OK for [http://help.ubuntu.com/community help.ubuntu.com/community Ubuntu], but is it OK for Debian?
 +
* [http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/fdl.html GFDL] is OK for Debian (but they don't like it) only if there is no [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_Free_Documentation_License#Criticism_of_the_GFDL 'invariant text']. They say that in August 2008, but which version are they talking about? See if you can work it out: [http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/ddp-policy/ch-common.en.html Debian Documentation Policy (DRAFT)]
 +
 +
=== Unsuitable licenses ===
 +
* Creative Commons Licenses, version 2.0 or 2.5 ([http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/ddp-policy/ch-common.en.html Debian, August 2008])
 +
* Creative Commons BY-NC-SA, preventing commercial use is not 'free' by the Debian definition
  
 
== Comparison of potential websites ==
 
== Comparison of potential websites ==
{| border="1"
+
The column 'Redistributable with Debian?' is there because Debian has the most restrictive policy on including documentation.
 +
 
 +
{| border="1" class="wikitable sortable" style="text-align: center; font-size: 85%; width: auto; table-layout: fixed;"
 
|-
 
|-
 
! Website
 
! Website
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! Positive points
 
! Positive points
 
! Negative points
 
! Negative points
! Redistributable with documentation?
+
! Redistributable with Debian?
 
|-
 
|-
 
| [http://genealogy.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page Familypedia]
 
| [http://genealogy.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page Familypedia]
| [http://www.wikia.com/wiki/Wikia_copyrights GFDL]
+
| [http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/fdl.html GFDL]
 
| Claim 24,320 entries
 
| Claim 24,320 entries
| Opinion and actual genealogy share the same wiki
+
| Genealogy advice and records share the same wiki
| {{?}}
+
| {{yes}} without 'invariant text'
 
|-
 
|-
 
| [http://www.werelate.org/wiki/WeRelate:About WeRelate.org]
 
| [http://www.werelate.org/wiki/WeRelate:About WeRelate.org]
| GFDL (text)  
+
| [http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/fdl.html GFDL] (text)  
 
| Claim 2,000,000 entries. By the registered charity [http://www.folg.org/ Foundation for On-Line Genealogy]
 
| Claim 2,000,000 entries. By the registered charity [http://www.folg.org/ Foundation for On-Line Genealogy]
| Opinion and actual genealogy share the same wiki
+
| Genealogy advice and records share the same wiki
| {{?}}
+
| {{yes}} without 'invariant text'
 
|-
 
|-
| [https://wiki.familysearch.org/en/Main_Page FamilySearch Wiki-Beta Test]
+
| [https://wiki.familysearch.org/en/Main_Page FamilySearch]
| BY-NC-SA
+
| [http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/3.0/ BY-NC-SA]
 
| FamilySearch Wiki is [only] about genealogical research advice.[https://wiki.familysearch.org/en/The_Vision:_Why_We_Built_FamilySearch_Wiki#Subjects_outside_the_wiki.E2.80.99s_scope (ref)]
 
| FamilySearch Wiki is [only] about genealogical research advice.[https://wiki.familysearch.org/en/The_Vision:_Why_We_Built_FamilySearch_Wiki#Subjects_outside_the_wiki.E2.80.99s_scope (ref)]
| [http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/3.0/us/ BY-NC-SA] requires citation, tricky if you're merging many sources. Commercial use is not allowed, so no redistribution with Suse, Redhat etc.?
+
| [http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/3.0/us/ BY-NC-SA] means no commercial use.
| {{?}}
+
| {{no}}
 
|-
 
|-
 
| [http://www.genealogywiki.org/ GenealogyWiki.org]
 
| [http://www.genealogywiki.org/ GenealogyWiki.org]
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| + in french, very active
 
| + in french, very active
 
| - only in french
 
| - only in french
| {{?}}
+
| {{no}}
 +
|-
 +
<!-- ### Genealogy Wikibook ### -->
 +
| <!-- Website -->[http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Genealogy Genealogy Wikibook]
 +
| <!-- License -->[http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/fdl.html GFDL]
 +
| <!-- Positive points -->Hierarchic book structure improves navigation
 +
| <!-- Negative points -->Not very active
 +
| <!-- Redistributable with Debian? -->{{yes}} without 'invariant text'
 +
|-
 +
<!-- ### TEMPLATE, make a copy before you start ### -->
 +
| <!-- Website -->TEMPLATE[url name]
 +
| <!-- License -->[url license]
 +
| <!-- Positive points -->{{?}}
 +
| <!-- Negative points -->{{?}}
 +
| <!-- Redistributable with Debian? -->{{?}}
 
|-
 
|-
 
|}
 
|}

Revision as of 07:30, 16 October 2008

Proposal to move genealogy advice outside this wiki

I think we should do this, but I don't think we have found the right solution yet. Damn, I thought I had... --DuncanNZ 09:33, 16 October 2008 (EDT)

Reasons for the move

  • Credibility is improved by keeping advice seperate from a specific software solution
  • The GRAMPS wiki is relatively small and presumably gets few non-GRAMPS users visiting
  • Supporting the best existing sites about genealogy reduces duplication of effort
  • Involvement in more active (and diverse) websites increases the potential for collaboration and original solutions and thoughts

Current problems with moving

  • There are no good multilingual sites
  • Internal inks in this site need to be preserved (so don't actually delete a page, leave a link to the new location)

Wishlist for genealogy advice website

(Please sign you wishes so we can discuss them on the email lists)

  • Fully multi-lingual (Jerome), --DuncanNZ 09:33, 16 October 2008 (EDT)
  • The site must use a free license (free to use, modify and distribute) --DuncanNZ 09:33, 16 October 2008 (EDT) (help.ubuntu.com/community uses BY-SA )
  • Consensus among wiki editors on which site to use, so we can endorse it for readers as our preferred choice. --DuncanNZ 09:33, 16 October 2008 (EDT)
  • Site should aggregate from other sites' content, to avoid duplication (what's this called?) --DuncanNZ 09:33, 16 October 2008 (EDT)

Suitable licenses

Unsuitable licenses

  • Creative Commons Licenses, version 2.0 or 2.5 (Debian, August 2008)
  • Creative Commons BY-NC-SA, preventing commercial use is not 'free' by the Debian definition

Comparison of potential websites

The column 'Redistributable with Debian?' is there because Debian has the most restrictive policy on including documentation.

-
Website License Positive points Negative points Redistributable with Debian?
Familypedia GFDL Claim 24,320 entries Genealogy advice and records share the same wiki Yes without 'invariant text'
WeRelate.org GFDL (text) Claim 2,000,000 entries. By the registered charity Foundation for On-Line Genealogy Genealogy advice and records share the same wiki Yes without 'invariant text'
FamilySearch BY-NC-SA FamilySearch Wiki is [only] about genealogical research advice.(ref) BY-NC-SA means no commercial use. No
GenealogyWiki.org A Creative Commons license, but the license link is dead. I've written to him. Is only for genealogy information, not articles and thoughts. Is only for genealogy information, not articles and thoughts. ?
GeneaWiki BY-NC-SA + in french, very active - only in french No
Genealogy Wikibook GFDL Hierarchic book structure improves navigation Not very active Yes without 'invariant text'
TEMPLATE[url name] [url license] ? ? ?

Archive

(Move old content down here if it should be kept for reference)

(Bob's question was answered three months ago. Text deleted. --DuncanNZ 09:14, 16 October 2008 (EDT))